Nov 222011
 

Let me reiterate my intention with this entire Holding Up Our Sign series:

We have had trouble finding a place where we feel comfortable. In many churches, there is a terrific theological alignment, but a disagreement over social and lifestyle issues. In other churches, we fit right in to the social norms, but there are doctrinal differences that we just can’t ignore.

I am attempting to present the ideas from a wide variety of denominations that we have encountered, which we found particularly valuable – or particularly troublesome. This will include any number of churches that we know we would never attend, and it not my intention to recommend them to you wholesale.

We’re piecing together the quilt of our Home Church belief system. You get a ringside seat for the process!

As with other denominations under discussion, I have not done an in-depth study of the various issues here. As I am trying to explain my reasoning here, I hope you will bear with me through any minor errors or incongruities.

Since by and large the mainline Protestant denominations (Presbyterian, Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, etc.) are splinters that broke away from the Catholic church during the Reformation, each has retained varying degrees of the Catholic “issues” presented here. In most cases, these are significant enough that they are the “Where We Differ With…” reasons that we do not feel comfortable there. A few other unique issues will be addressed in separate posts.

This post has turned into a fascinating study, as I became enmeshed in a dialogue about some of these issues after asking a Catholic friend to proof-read it.

Talking to her made me realize how unfair a rap Catholicism usually gets. People see something, and judge it – even without understanding it, sometimes even when that requires making up an explanation. Some things that may look “odd” from the outside may be perfectly sensible when they are understood.

I am by no means under the impression that I know or understand everything about Catholicism at this point, but I have endeavored to find out enough to make my views at least somewhat less skewed. This has, in fact, shifted my view on several issues. There’s still a bit of “where we differ” left, though.

Infant Baptism vs. Believer’s Baptism

We believe that baptism is a symbolic action that is taken by an “adult” believer, to demonstrate his commitment to following after Christ. Adult here refers only to the “age of accountability,” which we do not wish to argue here; it is used to differentiate from…

Infant baptism is practiced in the Catholic church, as well as many of the mainline Protestant denominations.

Some of the principles behind the infant baptism ceremony, with which we agree, are taken up in a separate, informal ceremony at many Baptist churches (don’t know about anywhere else) called “Baby Dedication” – which would more properly be “Parental Dedication”. The baby is typically presented with a tiny Bible (symbolic, at that age, but cute), and the parents pledge to raise their child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. The Pastor will then pray over all the families taking part, asking the congregation to also take up the community burden of prayer and support for them. [Ed note: Wish people took that "community" part more seriously].

This would be a perfect time to also elect Godparents (as the Catholics do), which seems a most worthwhile institution. Why don’t Baptists do that? Maybe we will…

Anyhow, Catholics will then compare the conscious choice element of Believer’s Baptism to their second Sacrament – Confirmation. The trouble is, however correct the intentions may be, I’ve known enough young “Catholics” to know that this is often not an adult and willful choice, but simlply obedience to their parents and adherence to the routine of church ceremonies that one simply does. This should not be interpreted as a slight towards Catholics, as it is a concern across the board.

But it is, thus, one of the main arguments for holding off on the “choice” portion until a later age. Interestingly, the Amish go further still, with teenagers being encouraged to “see what’s out there” during their Rumschpringe before choosing to take the vows of church membership.

Interestingly, the language used to describe this rite in some Catholic literature (“A sacrament in which the Holy Ghost is given to those already baptized in order to make them strong and perfect Christians and soldiers of Jesus Christ.”) sounds a lot like the language used by the Pentecostals. Their post is coming.

And still, Scripture over and over uses the language of “believe and repent, and be baptized.”

Believe first.

Then be baptized.

And that’s all.

Intermediary / Intercessor vs. Direct Access; Holiness of Men

We do not agree with the Catholics’ emphasis on praying to various Saints, and of course (especially) to the Virgin Mary.

It is our belief that, while holy and wonderful people, all of them were… well… people. Just men and women. Even Mary.

Although we study and learn about certain “heroes of the faith” – including Mary, and many of the other Catholic Saints, I’m sure – we would never consider praying to any of them.

Jesus is my personal Lord and Savior. Scripture even refers to Him as our Intercessor – our High Priest. We can also pray directly to the Father, as the Lord’s Prayer clearly demonstrates.

So why do I need to pray to some guy, to pray to the Lord for me?

In my experience there is a wide range of Catholic belief and experience in regard to the “personal relationship” aspect. Some Catholics feel, believe, and pray just as your typical Evangelical. But others seem to be caught up in ritual prayers, ritual celebrations, and almost a doctrine of works (although I’m not going to “go there”, since it is not doctrine, this is definitely an issue for many people).

(I adore the scene in We Were Soldiers, when the Catholic Mel Gibson character is saying rote prayers with his children, and the little girl says she wants to “pray to Mommy’s [Protestant] God” so that she can say what she feels.)

The Divinity or Divine Appointment or Divine Connection of the Pope

I’m not sure precisely how most Catholics view the Pope, but this is many degrees removed from anything I could agree with.

Jesus is the head of the Church, and all men are just men. I do not believe – do not see any evidence in Scripture to support the idea – that God reveals His plan to one man and one man only, for dissemination through a Papal Decree.

Although Jesus said he would “build His church upon the Rock (Peter)”, I think you would be hard-pressed to trace the Pope’s current level of power, authority, and ascribed infallibility back to that.

Confession and Penance

I do not find any requirement in Scripture that I confess my sins to another person (not to be confused with the requirement to seek forgiveness from someone you have wronged). Even less does there seem any justification for another man imposing a penalty for my sin (not to be confused with legal penalties).

This is business that is strictly between me and the Lord.

Pomp, Ceremony, and Ritual

This is an area that I think is probably likely to be viewed skewed-ly.

What one person sees as over-the-top, or ritualistic, or self-aggrandizing, another may see as an attempt to honor the Lord through the splendor of worship, and a natural outgrowth of the Lord’s instructions about the temple, the priests, etc. in the Old Testament.

It is my understanding, though, that Christ’s coming abolished the office and traditions of the Levite priesthood. Since we no longer need them to offer sacrifices on our behalf, nor to act as an intermediary between us and Lord, they are no longer necessary.

Thus today’s pastor is a shepherd, and a teacher. An evangelist. But not someone who us approaching the Holy of Holies, and needs to wear glorious garb that sets him apart from the rest of us.

As you may know if you’ve been here long, I do very much agree that the Lord deserves our respect in worship – including dressing up in our best.

So, I do not feel comfortable with the Catholic practice here, if only because it is so easily misconstrued even by the congregation at large.

But I do not find this a horrible offence as it might once have appeared.

Purgatory

My “sola scriptura” conviction is that there is no mention of this in the Scripture, so it is not something in which I believe.

There are possible interpretations ranging from, “absent from the body, present with the Lord,” to the dead in Christ “sleeping” until the appointed hour. But I do not believe that their condition can be improved during this “holding period,” nor that the prayers of the living can effect their condition.

Catholic friends: while I welcome your input, and correction of any fundamental errors I may have made, I do not wish to turn this into a debate. I am unlikely to be converted to Catholicism, and am only trying to explain by comparison the things I believe.

  5 Responses to “Where We Differ With Catholics”

  1. I grew up catholic and do not remember ever being encouraged to read my Bible. In fact, I didn’t even have one until I went to VBS with a friend at a protestant church and her family gave me one. We left the church when I was in 4th grade, I think, so I may not have been exposed to the Catholic way as much as someone who was attending as an adult. I remember being lost and confused as a child when leaders were singing or speaking latin, also.

    • My understanding is that Mass is now said in the language common to the area where it is being held, with the exception of certain times when it is done in Latin as a special occasion. That was a big question for me, too!

      I also have the impression that most Catholics are not big Bible readers. I certainly have Catholic friends for whom that is NOT the case, but I do think it is a part of their “culture”, if you will — from the days when everything WAS Latin, and only the priest read the Bible, and he just told you how it was.

      Obviously that is a situation that we also do not support. But I did not raise it in the article because of my uncertainty about where the line was between things that just ARE, and things that are Catholic. I know plenty of Baptists who don’t read their Bible, either.

  2. Just a few points from a practicing Catholic.

    Intercessor vs. direct access: Think of this like a request for prayers. It is something that you would ask your friends and family to do for you in a time of need. Many Catholics request prayers from the Saints and Mother Mary. We DO NOT pray to them, but request prayers.

    The Pope: The Pope has only every been considered infallible twice in Church history if I remember right. Once in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and once decreeing Mary being born without sin in order to be a worthy ‘vessel’ in which Jesus dwelt for nine months. Other than that, while the Pope is considered the leader of our church, everything he says and does is not considered a direct commandment from God.

    Reconciliation: Many Catholics will agree with you. It is not comfortable to go and ‘confess’ your sins to someone who knows beans about you. But, I have several times found great comfort in sharing my burden. Yes, I know that God will forgive me and many disagree with penance. But many of the penances have been centered on reflection and self-growth to promote healing and to help you keep from future sin. I have never been scolded, preached at, or been made to feel inferior during Reconciliation but I have found a great sense of peace afterwards.

    Purgatory: 2 Maccabees 12:46: “Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from sin.” Matthew 5:26 “Amen, I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny.” Purgatory is considered a refinement period, such as with a refiner’s fire separating impurities from gold. In many cases people do not die sinless and this period is to aide in preparing the Soul for God. It is not an endless floundering place but the antechamber towards the House of God.

    I do hope that you are able to find a community with which you are comfortable praising and worshiping God. May God bless and keep you safe on your way towards Him.

    Lisann

    • Thank you for taking the time to leave these clarifications.

      Many of them are very similar to what my friend and I discussed when I shared this post with her. Having done more research on some of the topics, I still feel that my position accurately reflects the way the Catholic Church *is* in the world, whether or not all Catholics are that way, or even whether or not it agrees with their own absolute teachings.

      Since we are clearly not going to (not even trying to) convert one another to the opposing point of view, I think we can safely agree to disagree.

  3. Hi, There are sacramental churches and non- sacramental churches. The sacramental churches are Roman catholic, Anglican, and the various orthodox churches. I’m Anglican and while we have all of the sacraments like the Roman Catholic church we differ in that we are not under the Pope. We have confession for those that may want it but it is not obligatory. We spend our time reading Bible, praying and to the best of our knowledge and ability to follow in the steps of Christ. I do like the sacraments. And I have found my church and I am very happy in it. Everyone must find the church that suits them.

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